Have you ever heard something like: “It isn't religion that's corrupt, it's the people who use it that are!”.
Both Stalin and Hitler used Christianity to rise to power and gain respect. Abortionists have been murdered by Christians fundamentalists before. Ted Haggard, the disgusting man who abused Christianity to spread propaganda and hatred against homosexuals, only to be revealed to be receiving monthly gay sex from a male trainer/prostitute, and bought drugs from this man? Mountain meadows massacre. Crusades. What about the brainwashed Muslims who destroyed the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001? The list could go on for days.
What about the trial of Kazimierz Łyszczyński, a known atheist, who was literally tried for atheism, and executed for it? Oh you don't believe in our god, then we will kill you, that makes sense right.
There are countless examples of religious stupidity, including the (possibly fictional) crucifixion of Jesus Christ. These all seem to point to it being corruption by humanity, instead of the grace of God, right? Then, consider this People supported all of those things for religious reasons. Because this is gods plan. If it's really these few people who are corrupting religion, how could they possibly have religious supporters? Wouldn't these other people see how horrifying these actions are? Wouldn't there god tell them these things were wrong?
Of course not. Religion is senseless dogma. It is there to CONTROL & TAX you. For most it does not help it holds you back from what you could really become. You want to believe in a deity? Be a theist or a deist. Most the founding fathers where one of these.
Religion, through its own purpose, is corrupt. You could say some people alter it to make it uncorrupt, but... Really? You're worshipping a guy who you've never met, because someone told you so. If your prophet, pastor, preacher, spiritual advisor told you god said gay marriage was now alright, most would say fine and move along. Just like with blacks most said god cursed them, interracial relationships are of the devil. As soon as society swayed so did every major religion, they suddenly had revelations it was alright now. As long as it exists in this form, it will be used for unthinkable atrocities. Until the superstitious prejudice, tradition and dogma are erased from religion, it's going to remain just as corrupt and controlling as it always has been. Just like politics:-)
I don't think anyone will argue that there is no corruption in religion, nor will anyone argue that corruption doesn't exist in politics. I think corruption is more widespread in politics, but corruption in religion is more shocking and hypocritical, which makes it seem worse.
ReplyDeleteWe've almost become desensitized to corruption in politics. We've come to expect our elected officials to make backroom deals or have improper relations or something similar. As they say in Newsies, "How 'bout a crooked politician? Hey, stupid, that ain't news no more!" Stories of corruption in politics break every week, but fade within a day. It's just not surprising anymore.
Religion is different in that when corruption reveals itself, people are shocked and appalled for months. Look at the Catholic priest abuse scandal. That story has been going on for years now and public revulsion is renewed afresh with each development in the story.
Although religious corruption is more reprehensible, I believe there are more honest leaders there than in politics. A lot of good has been accomplished in this world through good people leading others according to the precepts of their religion. Regardless of whether Christ or Mohammed or Moses were myths, words attributed to them have led people to live better and more honest lives.
You infer here and have posted previously that religion is corrupt and leads to horrific events. Let me respond to your attack on religion...I would love to hear a rebuttal.
ReplyDeleteYou have argued repeatedly that the bad religion has done greatly outweighs the good. Your arguments usually point to the crusades or 9/11 as examples of this. But the arguments never give religion credit for the societal values they enstill. For example, humanistic values (respect one another, live the good life, love one another, people are good, etc) were founded by men like Rousseau and Locke - both citing Christianity as the source for their ideas.
Try to imagine a world without the values of respect, love, and individual worth. What you are imagining is a world without religious values. I don't know about you but I imagine a world steeped in corruption, wars, and murder. Without individual worth, or mutual respect what stops me from murdering my neighbor for his 60" TV?
Ironically the "New Atheism" movement, led by people like Hitchens (author of "God is not Great"), argues that religion should simply be replaced by...HUMANISM. This is ironic indeed! Hitchens (and I assume you would also argue) that religion should be replaced by values that were founded by religion!!!!
The truth is, our society today is founded upon religious values and those values are the pillars of humanity. If it were possible to take away religion and all the consequences of past religion (which is not possible), humanity would come crashing down before our eyes. It seems incredibly naive to say otherwise.
This is a post about the evil/corruption that is why I have not talked about the good. If It was a post about which did more good for society politics or religion I could argue the good in both as well.
ReplyDeleteYou say atheist want to replace religion with humanism, and that humanity values where created by religion. I would argue the exact opposite. I would argue that it is our human nature to be kind to want better of us and those around us. I would argue that religion is a byproduct of humanism.
IMO It was concocted. Religion was created by man, to holds those responsible that did not act humane. To give a fear factor to those who did, as an incentive to live right.
You said " I don't know about you but I imagine a world steeped in corruption, wars, and murder." Don't know about you but when I turn on the news 90% is about corruption, wars, and murder. Several them having religious ties in to why they were committed.
Religious values IMO deter these activities as much as the death penalty deters murder. It doesn't.
Rousseau was a deist, and though he believed in the necessity of religion, he said that that true followers of Jesus would not make good citizens. He believed more in God as Nature. He believed that we were born good.
Locke believed that religion was corrupt as well, that religions wanting to force there views on society and other religions and in doing so led to violence & social disorder.
Modern day religion is getting more corrupt by the day. Religion has turned to a business. In doing so it has become more about the bottom line then anything else.
The catholic church has been covering up and paying off people for 20 years, over these child sex abuse charges. The different popes had knowledge of these things(maybe not 100%). Yes they have done plenty of good the past 20 years as well. Is it worth the trade off? Ask the boys that were repeatedly molested.
The church of scientology is tax exempt & collects over 500 million each year all tax free. They do this by requiring member to pay fixed amount for services. You can even become a church auditor and get up to 15% commission on what you collect for the church.
The LDS church is also tax exempt. At the D.I. they can sale a brand new mattress that for up to 35% cheaper then I can yet they make the same profit since they do not have to pay taxes. This gives them an unfair advantage.
Im sure the fundamentalist LDS churches do a lot of good is well, but is it worth the lost innocence of the 12-17 year old girls that our forced into early marriage and child birth.
You said "Without individual worth, or mutual respect what stops me from murdering my neighbor for his 60" TV? " Really are you serious, talk about making blanket statements. I i better keep an eye 12.7% of people that classify themselves as atheist or non religious. Because they do not believe in a god or follow a religion. What stops them is the same thing that stops you me or anyone else. Reason, you don't have to believe in god to have common sense.
You may remember Matt Rasmussen, who grew up next to the Hopkins. His father use to coach me in baseball. Rand and his brother who coaches football at brighton have been atheist for as long as I remember. He raised 2 kids who have grown up to be 1st class citizens. To my knowledge he has never murdered anyone, or stolen there t.v. or ever felt like this would be o.k. What reason do you think he would give you as in why he is not some evil t.v. stealing murderer.
You talked about individual worth. I think religions takes away from individual worth. I think organized religion teaches there is no self worth without god. That if you do not live which way they tell you too you are worth nothing.